Re-educate Your Breathing To Support Lifelong Health & Wellbeing with Patrick Mckeown


Hi, my name is Guy Lawrence. And thanks
for tuning into my podcast today. If you’re enjoying these conversations
and you want to check out more of this transformational work, be sure to
come back to guylawrence. com.au and join me as we go further down
the rabbit hole. Enjoy the show. Patrick, welcome to the podcast. Thanks very much Guy. Good to be here. I must admit I’ve been
submersed in your work, uh, especially over the last couple of weeks
now when you were coming on the show and for the depth of knowledge of
this topic to see blew my mind. Like I knew the breath
was, was a pretty, um, pretty important aspect of
health. But it’s just incredible. It’s a rabbit hole mate and I’m not
sure if I can find the bottom of it yet, but hopefully we’ll see how we do today. Well, it’s like this guy, it’s kind of strange because the more
I’m in the field and the more I work in it, um, the more I realize what
I don’t know. And it’s changing. It’s entirely changing. It’s okay. Like since 2002 we’ve been involved
with breathing full time and just more applications. And I think the science has
started to touch notice. I think it’s, it’s taught the topic is harsh
and you know, for good reasons. Yeah, totally. Well, I’m always intrigued and I ask everyone
at the start of the show this and you just showed me a diary of a new
travel, a hell of a lot. Right? So if you sat next to a stranger on an
airplane and they asked you what you did for a living, what, how would
you answer that these days? I just tell him, I write a book, I
write books. Um, and I’ll tell you why. Because if I speak to somebody about
breathing who’s not really interested in it, their eyes just glass over
and they’re not too bothered. It’s not like talking
to somebody and having, having a conversation about a
game of football or something. Now if on the other hand, I connect with somebody who
is knowing about meditation, the Breath, focus, concentration, then we could have a good story.
And it’s one of those things, it’s a little bit about like meditation. You could sit down on a plane beside
somebody and start talking to somebody about meditation. Well, if they haven’t already done it and if
they don’t feel a willingness towards it, they probably won’t be interested. So maybe it was because
when I was introducing this
work 20 years ago that I was met with in some quarters, but
skepticism, especially in medical circles, even though it was based on normal
medical physiology, like I wasn’t, you know, I was drawing information
basically from what was available. And yet I often wondered why doctors
weren’t encouraging patients to breath through their nose. So I asked them as societies weren’t
encouraging people with asthma, children with asthma, why dental profession weren’t encouraging
children to breath through the nose and why sleep medicine isn’t
encouraging functional breathing. And because we seen the results
and the results are there, but the results are often very
than the literature. So it’s, to make a long story short, I never kind of want to waste my
energy talking to people who are not interested. And there’s loads of people
who are interested and
that’s where we have a great conversation and that’s why I’m here. Yeah, beautiful. And what led you to
look at the breath in the first place, especially 20 years ago, if it wasn’t
even spoken about much back then. I think, well I know it was
because of my own health issues. I was a kid growing up as a chronic, my operator and when I go to my mother’s
house and she starts putting out photos, she’s in her eighties now and she’ll pull
out photos and every single photograph of me as a child, my mouth was wide open and you know you
cannot reach your full potential if you have your mouth open. People
with nasal obstruction, if they have a stuffy nose
which is costing map reading, they are twice as likely
to have sleep problems. Now I can give you more statistics on
this with regards to children who are map rating. If they are mouth breathing,
which is causing even just snoring, they have 40% increased risk of
special education needs by age five. There’s loads of studies on this. Just one study involving 11,000 children
in Stratford upon Avon and there was a 40% risk of special education needs due
to sleep disorder breathing and one of the contributory factors
there is mouth breathing. Incredible. So I came across it by accident. I
did a master’s degree in economics but my health was deteriorating and I
always knew like in university I wasn’t, I was one of those guys
to get grades. I really, really had to put in the hours and I did. I put in hours like I worked from nine
o’clock in the morning until nine o’clock at night and my peers didn’t have to do
that and I didn’t get top grades with that. I’ve got average grades because
the issue is if your breathing is off, like there’s a huge internet connectivity
between tree pillars and how, and I’m only looking at three, I’m not talking about nutrition
because I know nothing about it. But say for instance the breadth, sleep and the emotions. If your mind is active and if you’re
stressed, it impacts your breathing. But if your breathing is
fast and shallow and agitate, and if your breathing is
fast, Palo, it affects, and if your sleep is affected,
your emotions are affected. And if your emotions are affected,
you kind of sleep properly. So here’s triangle would each
factor interplaying into each other. And I think it’s amazing because you know, I remember giving a talk
to psychotherapists in
Ireland and we had 40 psycho therapists in the room and I told him, I said lessen cognitive
behavioral therapy, his accent, cause I’ve heard great stuff about it, but I said it’s not changing
breathing physiology. And what I’m here today is just to show
you the connection or at least to draw it out, the connection between breathing folk
physiology and anxiety of the mind. Because if you do see BT with a client,
but if that kind continues to fast, shallow breathing, irregular
breathing with disrupted sleep, they’re not going to get the calmness
of the mind that they really deserves. And the other thing is, if the mind
is agitated, how can you meditate? So I’d like to give, like I often say to people
that meditation is wonderful. It truly is, but when I’m
working with people who come in, but anxiety, many of them have tried meditation but
they’re just don’t stick it and they don’t stick it because they probably
feel they’re getting nowhere in terms of their mind is so active. So we give them
small little breath toiled exercises. I think it’s very important with the
Bret to realize that it’s not just about taking a deep breath, it’s not
just about taking a big brat. Like all too often we hear
is, Oh, you’re stressed. Take a deep breath and you
know the more air you breathe, the less oxygen gets
delivered to the brain. So big breathing is going
to agitate the mind. So we need to give a series of breathing
exercises depending on the person coming into us and looking at breathing
from three different dimensions. One is the biochemistry of
the brat because you can
literally improve blood flow and oxygen delivery from the blood to
the cells burst just by changing the chemistry of the Bret.
Sorry, just by changing that, the volume of breathing to change
the biochemistry of the blood. The second aspect is looking at
the biomechanics of breathing. This is getting dye for Matic breathing. And of course the die from is
connected with the emotions, but your die from is also connected
with your prayer with the later muscles. And these muscles play a very important
role in sleep and keeping the airway open. So if you have an individual
who is map reading journey, sleep, they’re more likely, well
of course mouth snoring, but also because turn my breathing, they’re breathing using their upper
chest and their airway is more liable to collapse. So the other aspect and
is looking at cadence breathing. When you slow down the breathing rate
to six breaths per minute in terms of stimulating the vagus nerve,
increasing heart rate variability, improving respiring to sign this regimen
and getting a balance between the parasympathetic and sympathetic. And that’s just looking
at functional breathing. That’s not even looking at breath
holding when you’re dropping blood oxygen saturation to reduce lactic acid
and fatigue. You know, so you know, I think it’s tremendous book. I
think people have realized that, you know, how many times have
we heared what an instruct. We’ll focus on the
biomechanics of breathing, but they completely sacrificed
the biochemistry in the, in the, in that instance, you know, they focus so much on breathing using
the die from lateral expansion and contraction of the lower ribs. But in the process taking big breaths
and in that process they get rid of too much carbon dioxide because carbon
dioxide the same to be a gas. But we have to bear in mind since 1904, that the release of oxygen from the red
blood cells to the cells is dependent on the presence of carbon dioxide.
That’s called the perfect. Yeah. The, the, there are so many things
you’ve just triggered in me already. Uh, and one thing that was when you,
you spoke about, you know, um, cause it feels like the spiral and the
fact that everything leads into each other and we forget about, um, I always used to think about
incidental fitness, but we, we were guilty of this in many aspects
because we used to get people coming in and they would exercise some train hard
for an hour and then they would go and sit down for the rest of the day
and live this sedentary life. And then there was just hoping to
compensate for everything else. And it reminds me of the same with the
breasts where we breathe in 24 hours a day. You know, they’re, yes.
And even with meditation, I always say meditation is what you
do with your eyes open during the day. It’s like this constant rise. Yup. Yup. I have to totally
agree with you. Absolutely. And because you know what yourself,
people are going to yoga studios, they’re doing breathing
exercises in the yoga studio. How are they breathing outside of version?
Really? That’s what I want to know. Um, how is the person breathing
when they go for a walk? How are they breathing
when they get stressed? How can you hunt a stress through the
Bret? How do you breathe during sleep? Like for example, we taped them out at night and I know
that can sound very bizarre and we’ve been doing it for 20 years and
even my children, we have
a tape coming up Mio tape, but it’s designed just
to go around the lips, just to bring the lips together because
if you have your mind open at night, you’re not getting a full deep night’s
sleep. And if you don’t get deep sleep, you don’t get rest and recovery because
the process of restorative sleep is for the brain to clean itself. And
uh, if if sleep is shallow, that’s when we really, really get health
problems that people have light sleep. Would that be a great place to start
tipping the most up and when we go to bed at night? Yeah, of course. Like I’ll
give you my example with this. I was waking up feeling fatigued every
morning as a kid going into school and onto university. I was shattered, but you kind of learned to live with
it because if that’s all, you know, that’s all you know. But I
remember when I was in university, I was doing Erasmus in Sweden and uh, I was in the dorms which
were under students. And one of them told me the next
morning he says, Jesus says, we talked you were
going to die last night. Of course I didn’t think
he said you were reading, but then you were stopping breathing.
And of course I had clue what that was. But then I find out later about
15 years later, 20 years later, it’s undiagnosed, undiagnosed
obstructive sleep apnea, which is really common with
people with asthma. Um, and as asthma severity increases,
so the sleep apnea, and by the way, Australia has one of the highest
instance advancement in the world. It’s either one or two. And the UK I think is number
three and Ireland is number four. So you will have a certain
amount of the population, those who are experiencing either
hay fever, childhoods asthma, which they’ve grown out of asthma,
exercise and juice, Bronco constriction, breathing problems. But in any event, my reason for waking up exhausted
was I have very poor cranial facial development because of my
breathing during childhood. My tone isn’t in the roof from out. I don’t have the development of my lower
jaws and as a result my troubles are set back in the airway. My airway is compromised and when your
airway is compromised and you’re more likely to have collapse of the airway
during sleep, so you stop breathing. So first and foremost, the real time to get nasal breathing is
during childhood during the development of the face. Now I then in 2000 I was in 1998 or I
read newspaper article and the article spoke about this Russian doctor and this
Russian doctor worked with cosmonauts during the Soviet space race and his
kind of workload was to find out what’s the, the optimal concentration
of oxygen I’m going up into, into space in terms of capsule. And he was working with breathing and
then he noticed that people were who were getting sick when he was back in the
hospital. People who are getting sick, we’re breathing hard now. He asked
the question, was it their sickness, which caused their breathing
to be excessive, that they
were running out of air, that they were punting, that
were gasping are he said, was it their heart breathing, which
was contributing to the symptoms? So he started asking, well, what happens when you breathe
hard and the available research, and even in the 1950s if you breathe hard, you get rid of too much carbon dioxide
from the blood through the lungs. And the loss of carbon dioxide from the
blood causes blood vessels to constrict. And also in technical terms causes a
left shift of the oxygen hemoglobin dissociation curve. But in very
simple terms, if you breathe hard, you get rid of too much carbon dioxide
from the blood and oxygen isn’t released as readily to the tissues. So
it’s ironic that the harder we, the last era gets delivered. So people who are on fish at the very
least are people who are not well. They tend to breathe hard.
And you know, he was the lone, because even more recently there
was an Italian cardiologist called, and I’ll come back to my story at a while, Luciano Bernardi and Luciana Bernardi is
a cardiologist with a huge interest in yoga. And he wrote paper back
in 2001 I think it was, and he looked at people with
chronic heart failure. And you know, a patient with chronic heart failure. It’s normal that they will
experience excessive breakfasts. And as during physical exercise, they
go for a walk and they breed, they get, they run out of air. You know, they
don’t have exercise tolerance. Well, most doctors would probably say, well that patient has
excessive breathlessness
because of their chronic heart failure. But Bernardi
asked a question, he asked, could the access of breathlessness be
jus to an increased chemo sensitivity of the body to carbon
dioxide? In other words, has the body become too sensitive to
the increased CO2 coming from the cells into the blood because it’s carbon
dioxide that stimulates your breathing. So you can imagine as part of metabolism
carbon Knox that is coming from the [inaudible] of the blood. And that then in turn is changing
into carbonic forming carbonic acid, which in turn is dissociating
into hydrogen on a bicarbonate. But as carbon dioxide
increases, so does hydrogen ion. And as hydrogen ion increases,
blood pH drops and they’re inspired, your center of the brain reacts
to the change in blood pH. So if you have an individual with a strong
chemo sensitivity to carbon dioxide, they would breathe hard during
physical exercise. So he said, let’s get these people to slow down
their breathing to reduce the chemo sensitivity to carbon
dioxide. And when he did, so their breathlessness reduced during
physical exercise and it’s, you know, so this stuff is all out there, but
it’s buried in the literature under, there’s another thing and if you even just change the cadence
of the breaths and say if you are breathing 12 breaths,
12 breaths per minute, and if you reduce it to six and if you
kept the volume the same per minute, you will increase your
breathing efficiency by 20%
you’ll have 20% more oxygen coming into the lungs. So there’s
so much here that we can play with. But I have to the, my story taping of
the mouth, I read the newspaper article. I did an exercise to open up my nose.
My nose was stuffy for 20 years. Constantly. I had an operation on my nose in 1994
the surgeon never told me to breathe through ish. And from 1994 to 1998 I kept
on breathing through my mouth. Now you could say that stuff, but it’s not because if you fix the nose, you have to fix the behavior. My nose was, but the behavior wasn’t fixed and I
kept on mouth reading. So in any event, 1998 they congested my nose,
went to sleep that night. I used to breathe right strips of my
nose to open up my nose just in case they collapse during sleep. And I worked paper tape
across my lips and yeah, the first night was kind of getting used
to it and the second night went stapled again. The second morning I woke up and I swore
to God it was the best night’s sleep that I’d ever had in my life. I’d never realized what was it like to
wake up feeling absolute alertness and concentration. And I’ve taped,
this is no exaggeration, I have taped my mouth every night pretty
much since maybe a couple of exceptions here and there. Um, but rather
not. Yeah, so it’s huge. And I’m not saying for people to
tape up their moat every night, but what I am saying is if your
mouth is open during your sleep, you’re not likely to wake
up feeling refreshed. You’re likely to have more
shallow and light sleep. You’re more likely to go to the bathroom.
And here it comes back to the mind. We have patients coming in or
clients coming in with depression, with high anxiety, with high
stress, with panic disorder. And I often asked him, I said,
listen, but I ask everybody. I said, how do you feel when you
wake up in the morning? And they generally were telling me they
wake up feeling exhausted. And I say, well, has your doctor, has
your healthcare professional? Ever asked you to do a sleep study?
Have they ever investigated your sleep? They said no. And the reason being is because I think
the healthcare professional is assuming that it’s the depression which
is causing the exhaustion. But maybe we should be asked King, which in turn is rooted in product, which in turn is reducing quality of life, which in turn is reducing our ability
to cope with everyday life’s demands. And if you have anxiety
over a period of time, could that be relating to depression?
So what’s the chicken and the egg here? We have to look at sleep. And
I was in the corporate word, highly stressed, hated my
job, absolutely hate it. And uh, I felt that we were totally
controlled by information technology. There was pressure put on me.
I was in middle management, I was only in my early twenties and I
was putting pressure down under staff. It’s crazy situation. And now I’m starting to look at
the connection between burnout. And I’m 46 years of age now. I would be trolling out onto the trash
heap now of any multinational company because why would they have an oud by
like me? Because I’d be considered, you know, an older guy, why would
they bother with an employee like me, which would require too much wages. Instead they just get rid of me
and they put in a 20 year old in, in there in my place. So we really have to wonder
what’s going on there. And this is why I think the ability to
be able to handle the stress because we as human beings guy, we’re not able, we’re not able to cope
with longterm stress. Never throughout our evolution where
we’ll be confronted with longterm stress was always short term, but true the brat, we can influence those functions
that are outside of our control, our normal control. Yeah, totally. With just regarding your
cell phone on that, um, you, cause you are someone that travels, like I said a lot and you would
have to manage stress and um, with yourself being such a conscious
person in a conscious breather with this work, naturally they’re
going to come hand in hand. How much do you think that’s affected
your life in terms of being able to, I guess even let go and let go of the
things that are probably really don’t have that much meaning, but we
put so much emphasis on it, especially when we coming from, I’m
a stress state and it’s been huge. Um, I don’t know how people can,
can cope to be honest with you, unless they have something like the
breaths to be able to reduce agitation of the mind. You know, I was very active
thinker and I give you a story. I wrote about it in a
book called anxiety free. This was even before I just felt, what about the same time I kind of came
across mindfulness and spirituality and the chem crossbreeding together and
they do go pretty much hand in hand. I went to to a seminar in Dublin and
I went in with a very agitated mind. There was never gaps between taught.
I was constantly stuck in my head, so I had walked down the street. I wouldn’t even see the
street because I was living, it would only connectivity
with anything around me. All was my attention was on my
head regurgitating, you know, [inaudible] and taught after taught. So I went to this seminar and
the seminar, the instructors, there were two instructors that they must
have been in presence because I don’t know what happened in that seminar, but I come out of that seminar
and I walked down Grafton
street in Dublin and it was the first time that I
actually seen the Strait. It was almost as if just a pair of
blinkers was taken off that all of those levels of conditioning had reduced and
I just remember feeling such an innate calmness going down the street.
Now I woke up the next morning, my head was just in his body stages. It was before dash but I was after
getting a taste of something and I was intrigued, I have to say I
was absolutely intrigued. So I started Dan focusing on the breath
more and I can really understand why people get frustrated with it because
when you start focusing on the bracket first you start to realize all the
nonsense that goes through the human mind. And we never seem to think that
everybody is in the same boat. So you’re bringing to it your two.
You’re bringing really to the surface, all those incessant and repetitive
and often very negative thoughts and fruitless thinking, useless thinking, thinking that completely
drains us of energy. And I think society is really good at
keeping this thinking in place because I think it kind of subdues the population
to some degree and fill them up at news, which by the way, I stopped reading
the news 20 years ago as well. No newspapers, don’t ever purposely listen to the
news of my catcher by accident here and there. So it can kind of,
sometimes you know, you’re, you’re conscious and be very careful
of what we let in let into our heads. But what I’m gonna say is, yeah,
at first you’re, you’re, you know, you’re focusing on the breath and the
mind is wandering and you’re focusing on the breath and the mind is
wandering and over time, and I don’t know how long does it take, what gaps start appearing between
thinking and it’s almost set. You’re developing a muscle and the brain
that you condense happen into Dodge whale. And that’s why if coaches
ask me, can you recreate the flow? Well, I can. Well, at least I feel I can. I can recreate the flow and I can do it
because when I’m giving presentations, I’ll go out to a room of maybe
500 people, no PowerPoints. Now I don’t use them and I talk
off the cuff for one, two hours, just you know, but to get into that state, I want to state of absolute focus
and concentration because what is concentration, but our ability to place 100% of our
attention on what we are doing without distraction of the mind. Now you think of the individual
with an agitated mind. How can you concentrate?
How can you focus? And if we look at the work, the quality of work of people
with excellent concentration
and some people have this naturally, I often use the story
of a guy. When I was in university, I studied three months for an exam and
he wasn’t studying because he was setting up a business at the time. We were only in our early twenties
maybe 21 years of age and he said, Patty, he says, do you have your
notes there? And I said, I have, and this was 20 minutes
before the exam. He, I hadn’t opened the book so I handed
him my notes and I remember him just looking at the notes and I
remember thinking at that
time I’d be staring at the notes, but no, none of the information was coming in
and as soon as that gets to the bottom of the page, I’d have to go through it
again. And that’s how I kept on, you know, trying to force that information.
But I knew it was different with him. He was looking at the notes, but he
had his full concentration under notes. The two of us went off, we did our
exam and he got the same grade as I, gosh, it took him 20 minutes
and it took me three months. Now I would just go a little bit further
with this guy because now with the hindsight of 20 years later, his name is Terry Clune CLU and he is a
surname is about 47 years of age. He set up at that time
when we are in university, set up a business called tax back.com
and he’s worth about 600 million Euro, which is about a billion us or
a billion Australian dollars. You do, you don’t, and by the
way, this isn’t about to finance, but this is about the quality of the
individual to reach their full potential when they have the capacity
to control the mind. Are we in control of the mind
or is the mind in control of us? And if we are in control of
the mind, can we stop thinking? Can we just put those thoughts aside to
allow our full attention on whatever we want to focus upon and
what’s more my attention. I developed it and it was pretty poor. But what about the
youngsters who are coming in? These kids who have grown up with social
media would internet technology with mobile phones and just look
at the increase of anxiety. And by the way, you know these
kids not see my own child. You of course they’re watching YouTube
ERs and they’re watching these and especially girls, we have to be more
concerned, but because they’re watching, if I, if I go on to Instagram and we
post this on Instagram, all I see, the only people that I see posting
their bodies are total posers. Okay? Because you’re not going to, if
you’ve got a big belly on you, you’re not going to exactly go there
and start posting it on Instagram. So what are we seeing on Instagram then? We’re seeing a very skewed portrayal of
real life because everybody that we see on Instagram, they’re beautiful looking. They’re in great shape and
they’ve got great bodies. So then if you have a normal Joe soap
like me that comes on and you’re looking at Instagram, you’re saying, Jesus Christ,
I think it is there, they’re perfect. And then you start saying,
well, I am not perfect. And logical pressure on your tough. That’s the gram Facebook and all the push. For me it is because it’s
not reflective of real life. And I think for girls
where image consciousness, and that’s social pressure, we
really have to watch that space. So I’m going to come to full circle here. This is where the breath comes in because
I think there’s three ways and then you know there could be more, but
in my, in my kind of own head, there’s three ways that I would use to
quite in the mind. One is I focus on the, on my breathing, I bring my attention
and Mertz I slow down the brat, but I slow down the breath to create
air hunger because if you slow down your breathing and within really slow and you
have a really relaxed, slow breath out, and if you consciously breathe
less air than what you’re used to, carbon dioxide increases in the blood. You know that carbon dioxide is
increasing in the blood when you feel our hunger. But as carbon dioxide increases, your blood vessels open up and your
hemoglobin releases releases oxygen more readily. So if I’m doing a meditation, I will incorporate it with the function
of breathing from a biochemical point of view because I can increase blood flow
to the brain and also if you focus on the Bret with the intention of deliberately
slowing down the Brett to create air hunger, the mind is more anchored
on the breath. If we just say, if we do pass around a Panasonic and you
focus on the breath, the mind wanders, you focused on the
breadth of mind wanders. But if you have the focus of deliberately
slowing it down and you’re feeling that air hunger and also physiologically
if you increase oxygen delivery to the brain, it has a calming effect on the central
nervous system because hyperventilation or over-breathing fast, shallow
breathing, it’s excitation for the mind. So we need to look at the physiology of
breathing as well as the psychological aspect of harnessing, harnessing
our attention on the breath. Now, some of this has only
been discovered recently. In March of 2017 Stanford medical school, they identified a new structure in the
brain, first in mice and then in humans, and they said this structure, which
is, it’s in the locust Corolla sport, this structure is spying on your
breathing and if you breathe fast, this structure in the brain is relaying
signals of agitation to the rest of the brain. But if you really
slow down your breath, this structure is relaying signals
of calm to the rest of the brain. And what’s more, if you breed fast, you’re more likely to
be aroused from sleep, so your sleep quality isn’t as good. And
if your sleep quality isn’t as girds, then the mind is going to be more anxious
the next day. It’s all interlinked. And we often think about to die from
people thinking about, you know, to die from breathing muscle.
Absolutely breathe deep, but don’t breathe big and
to die from it is true, is connected with the emotions because
when people get to see COPD and asthma and find their breathing
becomes more in the upper chest, there’s a direct correlation with
the increase in psychiatric symptoms, not because of the feeling of suffocation. Even though a Coke could
be a contributory factor, but when breathing is trained
to slow down the breath, choosing the tie from psychiatric
symptoms diminish. Yeah. Incredible. And we, we, we proceed, we see that we don’t see the world
how it is. We just, we see the world, how we are totally right. And, and, and that’s driven from how
we feel and how we think. And then we don’t see the truth of it,
but we see our perceived truth of it. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And wouldn’t it be wonderful to be able
to dissolve those layers of conditioning which have been added
over time. And you know, if we, if we don’t
reinforce those patterns, those talk patterns
but excessive thinking, I think they dissolve, that space dissolves and then we are
looking not through the filter of all that conditioning. Correct
layers of conditioning. We really need to get the conditioning
aside so that the true person can come at it through a young child has it and
you know the essence of spirituality be innocent like a young kid. It’s because the young child hasn’t
developed the thinking capacity that are their mind. Their mind is open, their mind is transparent and
they’re fully in the present moment. And guy education education has a, has a some role to play in this because
we are being taught how to think. We have been trained how to
think. Joe is a via does, you know we spent 20 years in education. The mind is trained into
this sharp analytical tool. We’ve been trained how to think but we
haven’t been trained to stop thinking. And if you develop the mind, you also must develop the capacity
to control and train the brain. And again the breath to commend
totally with that without oxygen. Uh, the breath deprivation like
you seen breathe slower us. So during our day, I’m, I’m
guessing cause you speak about this, just breathing through the nodes will
start to do that automatically if we like keep our mouth closed until we talk or
eat. Basically it’s a great start. It’s, it’s one of the best things that
I would encourage anybody to do. And even during physical exercise and
when you’re doing it during physical exercise, initially it’s tougher. The air hunger is not because of oxygen
dropping down or are lowering the air. Hunger is because carbon dioxide is
decreasing in the blood because our breathing stimulated brood is large. So when carbon dioxide comes
from the cells into the blood, just a change of blood pH and the brain
reacts to that drop to blood pH by stimulating your breathing.
Now if you have elite athletes, they have a very reduced chemo
sensitivity to carbon dioxide so they can tolerate a buildup of CO2 in the blood. And that’s why part of
it is they go for a run. They’ve got very light breathing,
but, and you know it’s, it was generally taught that you could
reduce the chemo sensitivity of the body’s carbon dioxide with severe
physical training. But no, not at all. Just with slow breathing
and you know, doing, bring this into your way of life and
also your tongue should be in the roof of the mouth, butchering
rest and during sleep. So we often get kids and adults
to make the popping sound. So in order to make that sound, you have
to have your tongue, Preston, Preston, the roof, the mat, because we need
the tongue in the roof them out, which will help open up the airway because
if the tongue is set back or on the floor of the mash, it’s more likely to fall into the
throat and then our sleep is affected. So I always want my clients waking up
with their tongue in the roof from out in the morning and with their lips together
and breathing through the nose. Yes, both during rest, during physical
exercise and during sleep we go that we change it and we
have to be conscious of that. And what else could you do?
Look at breathing from three
different perspectives. So say for instance, we will have
people with one hand on their chest, one hand just above their navel and I
would ask them to tune into the brat and then I would say, okay, now I’d really like you to start slowing
down the speed of the breath as it comes into your nose. And at the top of the branch bring
a total feeling of relaxation to the pardoning and have a very
relaxed and slow breath out. And they could be just shallow breathing,
but that’s fine because with that, my intention is to take less hair into
the body so that we increase CO2 in the blood to help improve the
biochemistry of breathing. So usually I focus with functional
breathing nose breathing first and we show people how to decongest the nose. You
take a normal breath in through the nose. Normal. Beth had pinched her nose hold,
gently nod your head, holding your bet. You keep doing it and then you let go
and breathe through your nose and you’re holding your breath pretty
much for as long as you can. If you do that five times, your nose
opens up so anybody would hay fever. Now it’s not fit. It’s not suitable if the female is
pregnant or people who have serious health conditions or high blood pressure, but
other than Nash, it’s very, very safe. We’ve been doing breath foiling as human
beings. If you go to a swimming pool, you’ll see kids throwing a diving
stick into the bottom of the pool. They go down, they cannot come back
up. It’s a very natural thing to do. So if the nose is stuffy, just breathe
in through your nose. Breathe out, pinch your nose, hold gently, nudge your head up and down and hold
your breath for as long as you can. Then let go. Breathe in through your
nose. Wait a minute, do it again. Do it five or six times. Notice what?
Be afraid. It’s only free temporarily. You then have to keep breathing through
the nose because your nose conditions warms and moistens the air on the way in. But it also picks up a gas called nitric
oxide and nitric oxide redistributes the blood threat, the lungs. Did you know that the pressure of oxygen
in the blood is 10% higher with nose breathing done. But my
breathing, and by virtue of this, if you look down at your chest, so
if you look down at your chest sky, take a breath through your mouth. So when you breathe through your mouth, what part of the body are you
bringing the air into? Chest. Chest. So my breathing is always
synonymous with the upper chest, but the structure of the human
lungs, because of gravity, most blood is actually in the lower lobes. So when you breathe through your nose,
your nose is connected with the dye from. That’s why when people are talking
about die from ashy breathing, they’re often emphasizing
die from Arctic breathing. But they’re not emphasizing
nasal breathing. You can’t, you cannot ensure longterm
die from attic breathing. It’s literally impossible unless
you get nasal breathing. And I like, I’m always like I’ve worked with
thousands of clients and like I, you know, just from experience you kind of, you’re starting to see these connections
and they make so much sense and it’s like what you said at the very start, meditation is not for the guy sitting
in the Lotus position with the eyes closed. Our life is a meditation,
but breathing is the same. So what I want is nose breathing,
slow breathing driven by the die from. And when you breathe through your nose, you’re taking nitric oxide down through
the opera airways into the lower airways. Nitric oxide is a natural
bronchodilator of the airways, opens up the airways, but
it also redistributes the
blood throughout the lungs. And this helps with gas exchange to
take place and it also sterilizes the incoming air. Now you think of this Corona
virus that’s going on at the moment. What about the kid or the other two is
just sitting there with the match open? You have no defense because if
you look at any medical textbook, you will never see a function of
the amount listed as breathing. Breathing is never listed as a function
of the Mount because breathing is not a function of the mouth, the nose, the
function of the nose is breathing. That’s a primary function.
And even with young infants, when it’s going back to say, yeah,
we’re, we’re born as nose graders, but say eight, nine months, years of
age, sorry, eight or nine months old, you see the infant
crawling, they’re exploring. They used our amount for, for
eating and for exploration. You know, they pick up things, they put it straight into the mouth
and there are noses for breathing. That’s so their primary function of
the nose is the breed and the primary function of the mouth is to eat
and to explore. But if that child, if young infant, if for any reason their nose is stuffy
that they have to breach with the mouth. Now the primary function of the Mount
is breathing and the secondary functions are eating and exploration. So these kids don’t normally develop and
they can often grow into fussy eating habits. And there’s a no
like I could even go on more, but I was reading a paper
by Dr. Christian gamer, no infants who died as a result of
sudden infant death syndrome, compromise, Polish, compromise breathing, you know, and the only issue that they had
wrong in several of these cases, they had a stuffy nose. That was it. Can you imagine a head cold resulting in
the young infant passing and it wasn’t a head cold, it was the head cold. It
just pushed the baby over the edge. It was because the airway was compromised
in the first sentence. There’s a, I’m probably speaking too much, but I’m going to just give you just
an [inaudible] in Sydney called Dora. Dr Derek Mahoney and is an
orthodontist and he’s got, he’s really well recognized
internationally but he’s
been doing a PhD including the effect of mouth breathing on sleep
disorder breathing in children and he would know this topic inside out, back to front and he was always
emphasizing children shouldn’t be getting extractions because if you get
extractions with orthodontics, the Mount is made smaller. There’s not enough room for the tongue
and then the tongue is coming into the airway. So his whole TCIs would have been
the reason that the child is crooked. Teach is not because the
jaw is too small. Sorry. It’s not because to say that and again, the reason because the reason that
the child has got crooked teach is not because the teeth are too big, but
it’s because the jaw is too small. Because if we had the mouth closed with
the tongue resting in the roof of the mouth, it’s the tone which
helps to develop the top jaw. So yeah, I’m going to
stop talking for a while. This is triggered like myself and my wife
were expecting our first baby in June and congratulations. Thank
you. Yeah, very exciting. It’s brilliant time actually. Yeah.
I’m, I can’t wait. Um, but you know, with this knowledge, I’m
thinking straight away. Is there something we
could be doing differently? What do we need to look out
for? What do we look for? And this is coming from somebody who’s
never been a parent before is wrong mind stores. So I wouldn’t be
overly obsessed about it, but what I would do is just pay attention
when the child is, is a newborn. Um, maybe a few months old. Just look and see how high is their punish
because if they’ve got a high narrow punish, it’s not a good sign. My own daughter had it and you’re kind
of looking at you’re saying, okay. Um, and then when she was
three or four years of age, I was noticing that she was stopping
breathing during sleep and it’s an, Oh my gosh, she’s sleep apnea because of
course she has my genetic features too. Like genes do play a role here and
if you have a compromised airway, it’s a big issue. Now I went and I got the best advice
at the time and that was to get adenoidectomy and
tonsillectomy and I did it. And then I went and I did functional
orthodontics splitter. Now, if I was to do again guy, I wouldn’t do the adenoidectomy
and tonsillectomy first, I would bring her, well first of all, I would bring her to a sacral cranium
therapist or an osteopath because they can literally just put their homes into
the child’s mouth and just gently, just gently with slight movements, expand the top jaw and expand the maxilla. And also they can help the Roach
of the face, which is an amazing, because see, you don’t want a very narrow Maxell
because then the nasal cavity is compromised. And if the nasal cavities compromised
and breathing can be compromised. So if I was to do it again, first of all, I would explore with very
young infants, a sacral, plenty of craniosacral
therapy or an osteopath, somebody would have knowledge of working
with the jaw as the maxilla at the top jaw, especially after not, then I
would go to a functional orthodontist, especially if the airway was
compromised and use a light wire, a plot appliance to direct, to open up the maxilla and to direct
the forward roll out of the face. And if that did, Martina would go
for tonsillectomy. And not an ectomy. Now the reason that I say that is because
it was traumatic tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy, but it’s the ghost sort of treatment
for sleep disorder breathing. Now, I only found out six months
ago [inaudible] for of this
was only investigated in 2010 so for decades, surgeons have been removing tonsils and
adenoids out of young children and they didn’t even know the efficacy of
it, did it? No so-called evidence, and I don’t mean to be sarcastic here,
but so-called evidence based medicine. And I’ll give you the results of
the study. And as far as I remember, it was published in the American
journal of respiratory and critical care medicine by the American TruSeq society. They tested 587 children
and sleep disorder breathing
was cured in 27% so even despite having adenoidectomy
and tonsillectomy, 73% of these kids continued to have
residual obstructive sleep apnea. Now we also know that if nasal breathing
is not restored in these children, despite having tonsillectomy
and adenoidectomy, there’s the 65% relapse within
three years, 65% relapse. Now, the last thing I’ll say on that
topic as well, I talked more about it, but in terms of ear, nose and throat don’t provide any
followup in terms of nasal breathing, and I gave this talk to 150
and is in Madrid of last year, 2019 and I said I was
one of your patients. You operated on my nose.
You certainly fixed it, but you never taught me
how to breathe through it. You’ve kind of just fixed the nose
without changing the behavior. If you have a young kid who’s
been [inaudible] breathing
with their tongue out because of nasal obstruction and if you
fixed the nose [inaudible] [inaudible] the back of the nose. Yup. No, you have to restore nasal root in because
otherwise mouth breathing is going to continue. When do you, when it comes to
kids, are they easy to work with, to, to retrain, to get him to be breathing through the
nose from a certain age yet it’s like there’s a book, this
is not new information. There was a book written back in the
1870s and it’s called shut your mouth and save your life. And it was an American painter that went
and he lived with the American native American Indians. He taught that
their traditions were dying out, so he went to live with them and he
noted that the native American Indian mothers, anytime the young
infant had the mouth open, the mothers would go over to the
baby and pressed the lips together, kept on pressing the lips together. And
I think it’s great wisdom, simple stuff, you know, so when you
see your youngster, um, and just like, we didn’t put
our child on on our back, but we had a mattress that
was really natural. Um, the fibers were totally
natural. Everything was natural, there was nothing syntactic, everything was breathable and the
child naturally stepped on her side. And you know, I understand
that there’s the, all of the advice and sleeping on the
back and that’s fine. I’m not going to, I’m not going to, you
know, cost out on dash. But I just felt with my own child, I didn’t really want her sleeping in the
back because I didn’t want the risk of the tongue falling back into the
throat, the compromise or braiding. And I didn’t want that with
the lower jaw falling back. Cause we have to bear in mind gravity
like in an adult, if an adult is snoring, they’re more likely to snore when they’re
under back than when they’re on their side. And what obstructive sleep
apnea, 50% of people would always say, Oh obstructive sleep apnea therapy is doubled when
they sleep in their back. So coming back to teaching
the exercises, you can, you can do little things
with the younger kids, certainly even the young infant
having the mind your lap, just pressing the lips together. But also there are simple exercises
with children that we have a children’s online course but it’s free. And we are, we’ve recorded as well a series of videos
with my own kid and we’re putting them out there for free. But
we have amazing myopia and it will be up there. It’s, it’s um, I just haven’t got, I’ve made
the edits but I, I have to get it, but I do at the moment
have a free online course. If you went to Buteyko clinic.com
and I’m not sure if the link, but you look for the kids course now
it does look for your email address, but it, the course is completely free
now. This was recorded 10 years ago, but the new one going up would be much
easier and I just recorded it before Christmas so that would be live hopefully
in the next month. That’s brilliant. That’s awesome mate. I
am, I’m aware of the time. I know there’s so many questions
I could ask you, but then there’s, if it’s just everything, every answer
you give triggers a new question. Um, but um, I can ask a few questions.
I’ll ask everyone on the show. And the first one is, what’s
been the low point in your life? Let’s let her be in a blessing. Well, it’s going to come back to my
own health issues. No. Um, it’s, it’s, it really is the pro, there’s been two things
that have been low points. One was I hated my job
in the corporate world. I used to work for this company called
the enterprise rent a car. And uh, I don’t mind mentioning that the name
of their company because I think it’s, it’s good if I would have liked
a fair, does hair disinformation. But I was 20 years of age, so I
absolutely was stressed going into work. Now. Part of it was because I didn’t have a
greater ability to handle stress and at the time my sleep was
affected and everything else. So part of it would have
been say my problem. And part of it then would have been
the ethos of not just enterprise, but the ethos of most multinational
companies. And I used to be envious, envious of these guys going into suits,
into the, the financial companies, you know. And then I was in New York
during the summer. I said, Oh my God. Like I’ve have wonderful job here, which with rewarding job satisfaction, doing a job that I love
to do, seeing results. And I could never go up into those big
offices in a gray suit and just sit behind a computer, look at analytics and
statistics and this stuff, the other. So the first thing that was was bad that
turned out to be a blessing was I hated my job. And that was a part
motivation to do something about it. I’m probably the worst thing could have
been that you’re in the nice costage cushy job, ms den. You get nowhere. You’re better off realizing that
even if you hate your job though, apply your talents to the best of your
ability because you’re not here just for your employer, but you’re
here to employ yourself. And even though I did hate my job, I
give it my best shot. And you know, you learn stuff and you develop confidence
in yourself and then those skills do actually, they’ll always have
future for the rest of your life. So it’s amazing too. There’s often a,
you know, things might and the best now, but watch that space. If you’re really giving it your
best shot and this is prayer, watch your mind, you know, keep an eye in your mind because the
stress levels, you don’t want them. Like life is a lot softer
when the mind is quiet. And of course things
happen in life. You know, life can be tough and life can be
challenging but life is definitely softer. When you have the ability are you have
a tool to help bring a quietness to the mind. And even if it’s just for a few
seconds, you slow down your breathing, you go back to the mind, you
slow down your breathing. But at least you can have create
gaps between torts. So yeah, how tissues that turned into a positive
and a job agent that turned into a positive. Yeah, love
that. Love the wisdom. Um, what does your morning routine
look like? It can depends. Sometimes I can get up very early, four o’clock in the morning and first
thing I’ll do is I’ll have a coffee and then I generally actually concentrate on
working on a new book that I’m writing. Um, cause I tend to write
them in the very early hours. One of the books that the most recent one, the oxygen advantage was written
at four o’clock in the morning. And I’d drive between
four and say half seven. And then I go up my daughter
and gets, gets out me, we must have my wife got her ready for
school and Nash and then I kind of take it easy. And then I’ll go on a treadmill for awhile
and then I’ll come back to my emails. But I get a lot of emails.
So my work is like today, sometimes I just go through, I’ll just give a quick scan of
VMs today at 75 emails answered. Like sometimes it’s crazy and that’s
only touching that we have a garlic colleague. That’s great. And she’s,
she gets such a volume as well. So, but you know, maybe just as the way it is, like it’s, it’s, you know, you’re,
you’re, you’re always wanting, breathing to you get out there
and breathing now is really, really harsh and it’s out there and yeah,
it’s great. So I’m, I’m so fortunate. So, yeah. So tomorrow morning, I have no idea what time I have to fly
to London and tomorrow evening and I’ve got a BBC interview on Thursday one
bit to doctor of the house from China, four on Friday. And then I fly back on Saturday and I
got flew in from Portland last night. So you can kind of get an idea of it
and you squeeze me in, in between. Yeah. That’s amazing. Did you have to do with like
expect the success of your book? You actually have that advantage because
I’ve been hearing that from everyone. I may like it, but I don’t know
if it’s the circles I’m moving or, well if somebody told me 20 years ago so that you would have trained instructors
in about 40 countries and the oxygen advantage is going into 14 languages,
I wouldn’t have believed them. That’s been honest. Ya. I have no idea that I would have never
had an expectation that something, so you know that it’s probably
because it just felt in a Nate, I’ve, I have a job that
suits me and you know, my, my ability, I love the
whole aspect of, you know, even talking in front of groups and
trying to put the courses together, putting the research together,
trying to stay on top of it. But it all becomes easy because
you have an interest in it. Like it’s easy for me to pick up a book
and it’s easy for me to read a paper and breathing because I
looked the information. So I would never have guessed that it
would, we would have had such an impact. It’s been huge. I’m very grateful first.
It’s been great. Yeah. Fantastic. Um, last question. If you could
have dinner with anyone tonight, from anywhere in the
world, in any time frame, what’d you think it would be
and why? If I was, if I was down for dinner genuinely, but
somebody will be Ecker. Totally. Um, I’ve been a great fan of his work.
I read his book first back in 2000, the power of now. And it
was one book that I really, really talking on board. It
was tremendous, you know, and he comes across as a very
sincere and genuine individual. Um, and also when you’re
listening to them, you get the presence and the
space there. And you know, if you’re exposed to somebody who is
in presence that their mind is present, it automatically brings you
into presence. And a, you know, as human beings we talk
and we communicate, but we never seem to consider water. We transmission that’s
outside of the words. And there has to be some connectivity
there. And I, you know, people could say, well, how can you prove it? Or
is there science behind that? There’s no science because we probably
will never be able to quantify everything. We don’t
even know why we’re here. We don’t know the basic
questions of, of life. So how can we quantify
everything in science? There’s, there’s an intelligence that is way beyond
that which the human mind could ever fathom and spirituality and the
essence of the quietness of the mind. I think [inaudible] has done a tremendous
job putting it out there. It really, really has. So yeah. So to, to people who are completely
opposites of each other. An ego and a no ego. Yeah. Yeah.
No, I, that book’s tremendous. Had a huge impact on me when I
read it as well. For sure. Um, is there anything else you’d like to add
from everything we’ve covered today for the listeners to ponder on, like explore breathing and you can explore
from a number of different point of views. And even if you
were to read one article, read an article by Mark and it’s called slow breathing and
basically because he kind of summarizes nicely the impact of the breath
and what we can do bodily systems, which are disturbed by stress. You can have recover and individuals
would say post traumatic stress disorder, asthma, COPT or [inaudible]
syndrome, chronic fatigue, depression, anxiety, panic
disorder, weak, you know, and then the athletes. So we have individuals coming in
who are coming in very unwell, they’re doing Buteyko and elite
athletes and we’re preparing some of the Australian national team
for the Olympics. It’s your, your kayaking team for some of them have
trained with us about three years ago and they’ve day have,
they’ve been practicing, I haven’t been in touch
with them now in awhile, but they did the course about three years
ago and their instructors are trained in oxygen advantage so they apply it. So I would say to paper, you know, the power of the breath and it’s not
just about taking the deep breath, it’s about really looking at the breath
from three different perspectives, the biochemistry, the biomechanics and cadence
breathing and you know, slowing it down to six breaths per minute. Breathing in and out
through your nose breathing, using the die from breathing very lightly. So the best way to remember it is LSD, especially for those
1990s teenagers. So light, slow and deep breathing is the mantra. Love it, love it. And you’re going to be
in Australia soon if I’m not mistaken. So yeah, in a few weeks towards the
end of March, towards the end of March. Yeah. So it’s uh, the 22nd 23rd 24th 25th rib, UTEC or, and then we have oxygen advantage. Then
in the weekend following that. So, yeah, I always love going,
getting over to Sydney. It takes me a while to climatize
to the change of hours. Like it’s kind of strange. You’re eight 30 in the morning now and
I’m there to 11 o’clock at night, so, or your nine 30 whatever,
you know, it’s so cool. It’s a great country to go
to and uh, yeah, I can see, I can see the draw. Yeah. Brilliant.
Well, anyone listening to this, if they pause it and scroll down, there’ll be links in the show
notes if they want to come along, come along and check your workout. Sure. Thanks guy. Patrick, thanks so much for
coming on today, mate. That was amazing. And, um, hopefully I’ll get to chat to
you again at some stage for the sure. Of corse. Yeah. Appreciate everything
you’re doing. You’re welcome.

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